Comments on: Supplemento di pena (per l’Italia)? http://caravita.retecivica.milano.it/?p=1673 "Fratei forza al remo, demoghe addosso", la Galera Gran Capitana di Venezia alla Galera Reale di Napoli all'inizio della battaglia di Lepanto Fri, 24 May 2019 12:52:54 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.5 By: Narito http://caravita.retecivica.milano.it/?p=1673&cpage=1#comment-2539 Narito Sat, 17 May 2014 13:53:31 +0000 http://caravita.retecivica.milano.it/?p=1673#comment-2539 Christina,Agree with most of what you write.It is largely un utaanionrl process, but the next steps could always reasonably be predicted. There is clearly a considerable degree of uncertainty. I write more from the concept that (politically) unrealistic alternatives are not considered.What I think is the best realistic way forward within the politically acceptable alternatives.My personal opinion from the start was drop Greece and PSI the rest and include Cyprus in that, heavy contractual pressure on the PIIGS to start with measures that are structural and of the size required. Like cutting 10-15% (GDP) of their apparatus and welfarestate. Bankrescue against market rates, non systemic banks let thenm go bust. Roughly.Probably would have worked better and is definitely cheaper, but was and is now still not realistic. The biggest mess imho will be a total break up of the EZ in seperate currencies. Most difficult to organise (and they are not really strong at that as we have noticed anyway).This is likely to play out with Germany getting more and more strict and the South simply forced (until the have a primary surplus) to agree. Population in the South simply saying: 'no', after a few years and followed by Euro exit. So most likely one at the time and from the bottom.The North alone doesnot need really such strict rules. They have shown when the currencies were pegged that it could function well even with less strict rules as now. Gentlemen's agreement basically was enough. With the South you need a watertight contract and a baseballbat. Nobody in the North will bring by gross neglect others into danger (basically what Greece, Cyprus and Italy have been doing). Stick not only to the letter of the agreement but also to the spirit. You donot need complicated fiscal rules and banking union to make it work. Christina,Agree with most of what you write.It is largely un utaanionrl process, but the next steps could always reasonably be predicted. There is clearly a considerable degree of uncertainty. I write more from the concept that (politically) unrealistic alternatives are not considered.What I think is the best realistic way forward within the politically acceptable alternatives.My personal opinion from the start was drop Greece and PSI the rest and include Cyprus in that, heavy contractual pressure on the PIIGS to start with measures that are structural and of the size required. Like cutting 10-15% (GDP) of their apparatus and welfarestate. Bankrescue against market rates, non systemic banks let thenm go bust. Roughly.Probably would have worked better and is definitely cheaper, but was and is now still not realistic. The biggest mess imho will be a total break up of the EZ in seperate currencies. Most difficult to organise (and they are not really strong at that as we have noticed anyway).This is likely to play out with Germany getting more and more strict and the South simply forced (until the have a primary surplus) to agree. Population in the South simply saying: ‘no’, after a few years and followed by Euro exit. So most likely one at the time and from the bottom.The North alone doesnot need really such strict rules. They have shown when the currencies were pegged that it could function well even with less strict rules as now. Gentlemen’s agreement basically was enough. With the South you need a watertight contract and a baseballbat. Nobody in the North will bring by gross neglect others into danger (basically what Greece, Cyprus and Italy have been doing). Stick not only to the letter of the agreement but also to the spirit. You donot need complicated fiscal rules and banking union to make it work.

]]> By: Laura http://caravita.retecivica.milano.it/?p=1673&cpage=1#comment-672 Laura Wed, 11 Sep 2013 13:03:15 +0000 http://caravita.retecivica.milano.it/?p=1673#comment-672 Grazie, Beppe! I tuoi post sono sempre interessanti. Grazie, Beppe! I tuoi post sono sempre interessanti.

]]> By: andrea http://caravita.retecivica.milano.it/?p=1673&cpage=1#comment-671 andrea Wed, 11 Sep 2013 06:21:51 +0000 http://caravita.retecivica.milano.it/?p=1673#comment-671 evidenzi giustamente: "..la mancanza, quasi assoluta, di una ricostruzione storica di quello che abbiamo dovuto subire dal 2009 ad oggi" ma dove dovrebbe avvenire questa ricostruzione? sui libri di storia? e' ancora presto.. forse sui mezzi di informazione di massa.. ma ho paura che, invece di essere la risposta al problema, siano una delle cause. per colpa di un ampio e irrisolto "conflitto di interessi" di molte persone (non c'e' solo mr.B.) che mantengono troppi ruoli incompatibili. che i semplici Cittadini Italiani ne siano "disperatamente" consapevoli, lo si vede indubitabilmente (per chi lu VUOL vedere..) perché alle elezioni politiche 2013, unico caso al mondo, hanno premiato come primo partito italiano (per numero di votanti alla Camera) una lista che mai prima si era presentata. Dimmi tu se questo non è un messaggio chiaro. Purtroppo non è (ancora) stato sufficiente. come dici giustamente tu: "Supplemento di pena (per l’Italia)" e senza interrogativo! evidenzi giustamente: “..la mancanza, quasi assoluta, di una ricostruzione storica di quello che abbiamo dovuto subire dal 2009 ad oggi”

ma dove dovrebbe avvenire questa ricostruzione? sui libri di storia? e’ ancora presto..
forse sui mezzi di informazione di massa.. ma ho paura che, invece di essere la risposta al problema, siano una delle cause. per colpa di un ampio e irrisolto “conflitto di interessi” di molte persone (non c’e’ solo mr.B.) che mantengono troppi ruoli incompatibili.

che i semplici Cittadini Italiani ne siano “disperatamente” consapevoli, lo si vede indubitabilmente (per chi lu VUOL vedere..) perché alle elezioni politiche 2013, unico caso al mondo, hanno premiato come primo partito italiano (per numero di votanti alla Camera) una lista che mai prima si era presentata. Dimmi tu se questo non è un messaggio chiaro.

Purtroppo non è (ancora) stato sufficiente.

come dici giustamente tu: “Supplemento di pena (per l’Italia)” e senza interrogativo!

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